Big Oil Companies
We asked a Republican his points on Big Oil. Here are his comments and the reaction from progressive bloggers:
1 Since most of Exxon's profits are from outside the US, which means price is set on a global basis. Actually true of most all companies anymore that price is set worldwide. But let's penalize an American company; I think all those foreign guys (where 90% of the oil is at) will be sure to give the US a price break!
2 Funny how really smart people believe the media stupidity blog when it comes to the economy. But, it is easier to be stupid and rally the other stupid people than trying to grasp the truth.
3 The US has to compete in the year 2005 on a worldwide basis. and since folks outside the US work for an avg of 1/5 the US salary; you might be able to see why GM and Ford are going away and foreign companies are moving in!
4 The democrats and some republicans are making a big show out of saying big oil gouged the customer; while Washington is killing America with their inability to legislate real energy policy to develop Alaska, offshore Florida, conserve, alternate energy, etc. My point being Washington had rather be part of a stupid vote getting blog than make laws that help American companies.
-Alfonso, Kansas, Republican View
You really need to broaden your understanding of this topic before you call others
Stupid. Here in California these big oil companies have been shutting down profitable
Refineries so that they can claim low productivity for the higher price.
They have even sold the excess to Mexico and other countries in South America
at cheaper than normal prices just to keep them inflated here. These prices are set by them. Ask the people that own the local stations. They get
squat in profits. These CEO's are getting millions in bonuses.
Is that what rocks your world? The rich getting extremely rich.
Is that America to you? If you think that this type of manipulative and non-free market behavior is admirable
than we will never understand each-other. I can't understand why you would choose to rally around a business that is
Manipulating markets and consumers for profits. Please do some more research before you go off half-cocked. I mean, really, why do you get so dogmatic about people wanting to hold corporations accountable
for such behavior?
-Derick, California, Progressive View
Ok, which of my 4 points are not true? See earlier email with numbers added.
I don't know why anyone would be in refinery biz. environmental rules are too costly, government changes blends of gas adding high costs to production, government regulations are too costly to follow, no-one wants a refinery built in their town, etc. If there was a profit to be made in building refineries; than someone would step up and invest the money; don't you think?
CIO’s are probably getting way too much; but if the industry standard is up there, then so be it. You don't complain that Tiger Woods wins a golf tournament and walks away with 1.3M for first place & then 10M in endorsements just for the 1 week-end of golf.
NBA basketball players give me the biggest jealousy/pain; pulling down 10-20M/year wearing tattoos, green hair, and generally setting a lousy example for the youth of America. Biz is very competitive -- the top companies have to pay the big bucks to get the best mgmt; that's a fact - not just the opinion of the GSOT +-50 1/3% accuracy.
-Alfonso, Kansas, Republican View
I think the media in this country is a huge sensationalistic piece of trash for the most part.
It is corporate TV for the purpose of exciting our reptilian minds with fear and the excitement for new gadgets.
Not going to argue with you about the media.
But there is the big media and then there is the small more independent media which focus is not to turn a profit but to actually tell the stories of our times. Warts and all.
In Bakersfield California - Shell Oil attempted to shut down the most profitable refinery in its California ownership.
Why??? According to them it was because it was losing money.
The figures said different. They eventually ended up selling it to a competitor.
Then they turned around and bought the gasoline back from them and sold it NOT to California customers BUT to South America and Mexico. As a matter of record 17 million gallons of gas riding in 3 tankers left San Francisco harbor and headed down to South America. Chevron spokesman said that they sometimes make more gas than they need. So they ship it elsewhere.
WAIT A MINUTE.
GAS COST MORE NOW THAN EVER
And you are shipping it south instead of keeping it local.
And at the time they were telling us that they wee facing a fuel shortage.
Meanwhile the cost of gas in California is among the highest in the nation.
The price had jumped 40 cents this last year.
Another plant in Southern California that was owned by an independent (Powerine) wanted to reopen after a temporary closure.
But big EXXON MOBIL did not want that and worked to keep it closed.
WHY? Because if the resumed production prices of gas in California would drop due to COMPETITION.
These guys hate competition even though it is touted as the American Way.
They could not hold back the re-opening so they ended up buying up the product and reselling it elsewhere.
Even Kooky Pat Robertson is pissed off at the big oil companies for interfering in his investments. They got in the way of bank loans that he was making to open up a refinery.
21 million gallons of diesel were exported to Chile right before the prices here spiked.
But they are rolling in the dough. AND BUSH gave this industry 6 Billion in gifts from us taxpayers. Where the hell is the Free Enterprise this guys relish talking about.
It’s contrary to the principle of the Free Market.
I Think it is gross what movie stars, Tiger Woods, Sports figures and CEO's get.
The Values of this country are skewed and disturbingly warped.
-Derick, California, Progressive View
Since we first played marbles as kids; we discoved Greed. You show me folks without Greed; and God would probably swoop them up and say -- this is darn refreshing!
which is why I fight so hard for folks that worked to make something out of themselves; and if they are head of Shell or head of Whole Foods or head of the US -- if I think there is more integrity there than people are giving credit -- than I try to defend them.
I try to watch the news on cnbc, the news is less dramatic and more honest facts about Greed. Which is why we like Jim Cramer (mad money) -- one of the most honest guys in TV. The news at 4:30AM is so much better than at other times.
Exxon, Whole Foods, Target, etc have a responsibility to share holders and employees to make a profit. If it can't happen in the US; then they go outside the US; as ALL companies are doing in this shrinking world. Dems generally tell pretty bold lies to keep the blog coming their way.
If US does not get out of Iraq; dems could run Hitler for all of the elections and win. It really does not matter about the future of the middle east at this point -- the media has labeled Iraq as a war that is bad for the US & the US should get out -- at any cost. People that know the Middle East say differently; but no-one in media cares for wisdom from a non-political source.
-Alfonso, Kansas, Republican View
WOW! You just defended horribly gross business practices. I mean- you did not critically examine it in any way. They made something of themselves?? What did they make of themselves? I amazed at how many people refuse to look at our lifestyles and value system and just go blind with ignorance. You seem to just boldly support the status quo. I hope there will be more people on the planet that fight these injustices rather than condone it.
Even places like Whole Foods, which I am a big fan of, will have to be held accountable for its business practices. It will grow and grow and become abusive like all industry.
Power corrupts. It is a fact. That is why we established a government. To protect and serve the people of this land. When we allow corruption to poison the servant of the people we suffer.
When politicians do more to serve the corporate interest than the good and humble citizen we have failed. How did you become such a supporter of the super rich and corporate industry? Does it benefit you in some way that we are unaware?
Are you super rich? If so. Please share.
Is your life so much fuller because Nike had set up cheap sweatshops overseas?
Is your life so much more complete because Shell oil and Exxon made record profits this last 9 months?
You seem to have no critical assessment of these situations that support injustice and immoral business practices.
You seem to support there right to do business this way.
I am confused by your loyalty. I have said over and over that I support true free-market capitalism with true market competition but as I have shown numerous times these guys are playing dirty. Giving huge subsidies to private industry and these big oil companies is not free market. It's just free handouts.
Market manipulation is not fair game play.
Why do you insist on supporting that?
Or do you think playing dirty is alright?
-Derick, California, Progressive View
Every point you make has a different story, a different side,
You ignore all of my points that I have made hundreds of times regarding the big oil companies and greed. I am not rich at all, fixing to be a lot poorer on fixed income in 2 months. Does that detract me from defending integrity as I see it? You just don't care to see the world from the view that most of the blog has 2 sides -- not 1.
-Alfonso, Kansas, Republican View
WHAT IS YOUR SIDE.
You have never in my memory - spoke out against injustice.
You seem to only defend the right of those corporate entities to thrive on profits no matter how they attain them.
Whether it is poor environmental stewardship, unhealthy cultural and community influence or outright greed.
Maybe I misunderstand you.
You seem to go on endlessly against Dem's and liberal.
But you never seem to speak out against injustice.
Is that where we differ?
Injustice is okay??
But fighting it is wrong?
What is the integrity you speak of??
I can't see it?
-Derick, California, Progressive View
I think he grew up seeing our elders who were good men and who had money, and concluded that everybody with money was like them...hard working guys who had acquired money the right way and earned what they had. He identified with them and so to this day defends guys he mistakenly perceives as being like them (i.e. the Big Oil Companies).
Some of the rest of us have looked past those early examples and seen unparalleled and unprecedented selfishness and destruction accompany riches. Nowadays, it's hard to make much money unless you're willing to screw somebody...if you're not willing, somebody else will and they'll buy you out if you're lucky, put you in bankruptcy if you're not.
The world has moved beyond hard work as a way of making money. Now the only way to get rich is to steal something from somebody, but he still believes in some ideal that no longer exists, if it ever did to any great extent. You'll never get him to believe that these corporate CEO's that run the major oil companies aren't guys like our elders.
-Andy Rhode, Florida, Progressive View
Thanks. Now it all makes sense.
No wonder I was all confused.
Perceptions really make the world. There is no one reality just billions of individual ones.
Which is why it's so damn hard to communicate with others.
There a many people who make tons of cash and create a better world.
I am not talking about them.
I am talking a bout the unaware and gross.
The non-enlightened the sleeping unconscious jerks that make the world worse by being insensitive to the plights of others
And the environment that has to sustain all living creature not just their needs and wants.
I am not lumping all corporate entities into one clump of madness Jay.
I though that was apparent but please understand what I was trying to say.
Or don't and we can just keep arguing about our misunderstandings.
And by the way, regulation does not have to be bad. Referees play a very important role in sports. We have a police force to protect and serve the lawful from the lawless.
Why do Republicans seem to be so anti-regulatory?
I mean. I don't have time to do lab test on my water supply or air quality test.
I want a regulatory commission to do it.
But it needs to be balanced and intelligent. Not dogmatic and inflexible.
-Derick, California, Progressive View |