2008 Election Democratic Debate I

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MSNBC Democratic Debate I - 2008 Presidential Election

I recorded the debate and just watched it. There were so many candidates that they did not get enough time to answer the questions properly but the former senator from Alaska was really vocal. I thought Hillary did a good job, as did Biden and Edwards and Obama.

Now, I am watching Larry King with people talking about the debates and that Arianna Huffman? is one of them. What is up with her and her problem with Hillary Clinton?

Let me know what you thought about the debate after you have a chance to see it.
-Megan

YES, I thought Olbermann really exposed Giuliani for the fraud he is! The

press has been giving him such a free ride because of the 9/11 thing and the guy is bad all around. Just his support of Kerik (can you imagine if that sleaze had been put in charge of Homeland Security? We think it's bad now...) is enough to make you wonder if he's not up to something himself.

Huffington started out, interestingly, as a Republican. She's from Greece, some kind of shipping heiress or something, but went to Oxford and is very smart...anyway, in the nineties, her then husband, something Huffington, was running for the senate as a Republican in California and she pumped all sorts of money into the effort. That did not go well. Then they divorced and more recently, he came out of the closet. When she was a Republican, she was on Comedy Central's nightly coverage of the 1996 election...she and Al Franken did these little skits, a takeoff on the notion that politics makes strange bedfellows...the skits showed them in a bed in their pajamas, commenting on the latest developments at the conventions. It was very funny and then she and Al Franken became friends and I think he may have helped her see the error of her wicked ways. So there it is...just think how much you'd hate her if she were still a Republican.
-Dan

Missed the first hour of the debate. Caught only the last half hour, during which time Hillary was asked only one question. I liked her outfit, though, but I think she ought to steal Edwards' hairdresser. And still wish she'd get a voice coach...gawd, here's a scary thought, she probably already has one...probably a closet Repub. But I have no idea how she came across in the debate except for the one question, Obama and Kucinich were getting much more air time. Obama seemed to be doing really well, was very impressive, I thought. And forgive me, but I have to admit...until tonight I had not even heard of Gravel. Still don't really know who he is.

Saw a little interview with Kucinich afterward, he had his new wife with him...she's really cute, he did well for himself apparently. Good for him, love it when the little geeky guys get the girl.

So did any of you catch it? MSNBC is supposed to have it available online tomorrow, I'm going to try to watch it then...
-LR

As things turned out, not only did I miss the first hour of the debate, we also didn't get the Bill Moyers show recorded. So I may have to watch everything online.

I like Arianna Huffington, she has an accent but I don't have any trouble understanding her. But then I like accents. But she's rabidly pro-Obama, which I guess makes her hate Hillary, which is too bad because she's going to look silly if Hillary gets the nomination. But she's become a good Democrat since her "in bed" with Al Franken days and her website, huffingtonpost.com, is very good.

I'll let you know what all my humble opinions are (ahem) after I watch everything....
-Angie

They asked Hillary a question about Wal Mart...and I thought her answer was very true...she said Walmart started out in rurual areas helping people to get goods at cheaper prices and was a good thing for them...then has had trouble with discrimination, etc...etc..and went on to talk about big corps....etc....anyway, you have to hear the answer and question, for yourself....but Arianna just blasted her for her answer......Whatever you think of Walmart....it does help middle America to buy cheaper groceries and prescriptions.
-Angie

I did hear Hillary answer that question! That was in that last half hour! I didn't see Arianna Huffington's comment on it but when I heard Hillary's reply I thought she was kind of covering her butt for having been on Wal-Mart's board.

-Megan

I don't think (rich) Huffington should be going after a democrat with such hatered..if she is a democrat....if she has picked Obama to support, that is fine but do not run down the rest of them in the process...I want Hillary but that does not mean I do not support other dems...and will vote for whoever gets the nomination. I don't feel the urge to slander any of them..that just feeds the GOP process.

My beef with Walmart is that they used to pride themselves on selling America made goods but now everything in the store is made in China.
To me, all discount stores are pretty much the same. I like going into Target, better, because it seems cleaner but I pay more for that...I went into Walmart recently and I could see the difference in the customers...more poor, middle class shop at Walmart...
Presc. drugs: the advertised low priced $4.00 generic drugs is false advertising at Walmart...I tried it out recently and the generic presc. Sayward had (2 of them) did not meet the critera for being on their $4.00 generic list...had to pay the regular price...so all generic drugs are not $4.00......
-Angie

You mean their much-ballyhooed $4.00 prescriptions are just a come on? I'm shocked!

I meant to look up a little article I saw somewhere a month or so ago re Wal-Mart and their equally ballyhooed push to offer organic food...it seems they dropped the idea after a couple of months...farmers from whom Wal-Mart had purchased had not received re-orders. But we haven't seen Wal-Mart come out with a press release saying they changed their minds, have we?
-Megan

I Guess I will have to be fair about this, (something Fox News or republicans know nothing about)...because I had lunch with my brother yesterday and he said he does get his presc. for $4.00 at Walmart...his two presc. just happen to be on the list...so it helps him...I guess if you have the list and take it with you to the doctor they can write one of the $4.00 ones...
fair and balanced
-Denise

Hmmm...I'd rather not build my health care plan around what Wal-Mart gets at bargain prices, somehow that sounds a bit backwards. But there's probably a lot of people whose insurance coverage is minimal or who don't have any at all and have to go by what Dr. Wal-Mart will sell cheap...

National health insurance is an absolute must....
-Angie

Yes, because the health insurance/coverage situation is the way it is...a lot of people need help in buying their presc. and the $4.00 generic is a help to them, the same people who shop at Walmart.....a choice between paying $35.00 and $4.00 is a real savings when money is short...people who go to the dr. regular and pay the big co-pay each time, then a deductible on each procedure, etc. etc....and are on a fixed income, could certainly use a few more $4.00 presc.....and if it comes from Walmart, so be it.....some people are not in the situation of being able to boycott walmart......(all stores rip you off)
-Denise

Well, of course you're right...but can't help feeling that Wal-Mart is using the medical situation in this country as their "loss-leader" to get people in the store, which seems rather opportunistic.

I wonder if it's possible for somebody to make a profit these days without lying about something....is that just the nature of capitalism?
-Angie

Every business is after the biggest profit.....even Whole Foods......where I cannot afford to shop..... I do not want to pay $3.00 for a tomato because they told me it was organically grown.... I do not trust Walmart or Whole Foods to tell me the absolute truth...and I have to watch out for myself and do what is best for me and my pocketbook. I have to believe that the hormone free chicken and beef that I have been buying from Target is actually hormone free?....who is to know for sure. Target is just as money-hungry as the next guy...Albertsons, Homeland, IGA, Whole Foods, Sams, Costco, Wal-mart, all out there to make the biggest profit...so we all just have to make the best decision for us, since we all have to eat.
-Denise

Oh, I agree. But that's the thing of it, the whole premise of our economy seems to be fooling the customer in one way or another...either by lying about the product itself (is it really organic?) or by charging far, far more than it's worth (I know what you mean about Whole Foods. I shop there maybe twice a month but only for a few things that I can't find at lower-priced stores like the non-chlorinated dishwasher detergent they sell under their own house brand, the Greek wine my huband likes for treat, etc. We certainly can't afford to do our regular groceries there). It doesn't matter if you're talking about big-ticket items, like a mortgage loan or a car or small items like a can of tomatoes It's all buyer beware, gotta do your research, and who the hell has time besides us old retired folks?
-Angie

Evidently you did not hear the way Ariana Huffington ran down Hillary the other night She was not trying to help, she is supporting Obama and running down Hillary and she was very mean spirited and hateful about it. I do not care anything about what that lady has to say. Ariana she is a big mouth and there is nothing great about her.

You know, Arianna hasn't been on Countdown or Scarborough any lately...actually, since the democrats debated. I wonder if she ticked off someone at MSNBC?

-Megan

On Scarborough, Adrianna Huffington was talking about the war tonight...honestly, I haven't heard her say anything about Hillary, at least not anything I noticed.

What's funny is how fighting mad YOU get over Hillary! :-D I'm still on the fence because, on the one hand I think it's time a woman was elected president and I think she'd be a good one...on the other hand, I think it's time a black person was elected president and I think what Obama lacks in experience he would make up in his ability to inspire people. And, oh, yes, I also like Gore and Edwards in the standard white guys category and Kucinich in the inspirational geek category.

But what I really wish is that the front runners, Hillary and Obama, would quit aiming for the center as their campaigns progress. All the candidates, in both parties, do that in their runs for president and it just makes politics seem dull. These are all people with strong opinions and they just beat the juice out of themselves until the people who want to support them have nothing left to support.

-Angie

Huffington has issues about Hillary's judgment and honesty and I agree with her reservations. Hillary supported this stupid war. I am not a particularly brilliant person, and I knew it was a bad idea from the start. Therefore, Hillary is either not as smart as I am or not as moral as I am; either way, that doesn't make her very appealing as my leader. Also, she now glosses over her earlier support of the war to make it sound as if she was against it from the start, which she wasn't. That speaks to her honesty.

There are two candidates I can support based on their fervent opposition to this war (which I believe is the worst thing to happen to our country since Vietnam, including the 9/11 attacks) from the beginning: Barack Obama and Dennis Kucinich. I would be quite happy to see either of them get the nomination, but of course, only Obama actually stands a chance.

There were people in office who didn't buy into the BS. Obama and Kucinich were two of them. While Obama was not a U.S. Senator at the time, he was in public office and an outspoken critic of the war. I'm not saying that some people weren't legitimately taken in, just that the fact that not all of them were speaks better of some than others. Is it a high standard? Yes, but I want my President to live up to my high standards. I want him or her to be smarter, wiser and farther-seeing than I am. If, on the other hand, Hillary didn't really believe it, but went-along-to-get-along, then she is immoral and I still don't want her for President. I want courage, wisdom and conviction in my leaders.

I never said I wouldn't support her if she gets the nomination. What choice would I have? I would just prefer a nominee who was against the war from the start, like I was. They are out there, and I don't care what their gender is, it's their brains and ethics I would like to see in office.

-Tom Thumb, CA

Remember what John Kennedy said "Every mother wants her son to grow up to be president but no mother wants to see her son grow up to be a politician". So it is with Hillary...we want a woman president, we just don't want her to play like the boys do. The first woman anything (like the first black anything) is expected to be perfect, even though all the white men who preceded them weren't.

I think Hillary voted for the war for political reasons and the expediency at the time...there was so much pressure to be "patriotic" and the way it looked at the time, she would not only have not been able to be president, she wouldn't even have been re-elected senator. It would have done the notion of a woman president no good to have the most likely candidate shoot herself in the foot right at the start. Ugly? Of course. It's politics.

Yeah, I know, we deserve better...but really, do we? Americans don't look beyond the sound bite. Candidates who do the expedient thing is precisely what we deserve. If we're lucky, the human behind the politician has other, better, stuff going on.

I disagree with you re Obama. I think his appeal goes beyond credentials, I think he appeals to our better angels, as Lincoln called it, to look above politics to ideals. There's very few politicians who bring that out in their listeners. I don't know if there's substance behind that, we'll find out more as things go along, but as Tom points out, he was opposed to the war from the beginning which, at the time, took a lot of courage...of course, he was just a state senator in Illinois at the time and didn't have as much to lose.

Finally, (yes, my little screed does come to a close sometime) the thing about taxes is unrealistic...kiddo, you've been spoiled by these Republicans who are willing to jack up the deficit into the 25th century and lie to you about the consequences. A tax increase is going to be needed if we're to pay as we go...right now the country is in the kind of credit card debt that would have put the average household in foreclosure and bankruptcy a couple of years ago. The alternative minimum tax cutoff obviously has to be more realistic and I'm not sure about Edwards's $200,000 cutoff either. On the other hand, we made good salaries when we worked and we weren't even in the AMT zone, so $200,000 to me is a family that can afford a lot of extra luxuries, not just middle class. But any politician, in either party, who tells you they're not going to raise your taxes is either a liar or a person willing to keep the country in hock to China. We are in a terrible hole right now and we can't keep taking money away from programs needed for a good country (understaffed FDA anyone? what's in your food?) to pay the enormous debt "tax relief" has given us. Hopefully, the next president will cut Halliburton's pipeline to the treasury and that'll help but it won't be enough. The Bushies have told us we can have it both ways...we can't.

On Biden - I don't trust Biden at all. His performance during the Clarence Thomas hearings was very disappointing...he waited until two in the morning and then let Thomas off the hook without calling an additional witness who could corroborate Anita Hill's testimony and who was ready to go at a moment's notice, without recessing and resuming the hearings at an hour when people would see what he was doing. Talk about fly by night.... In my opinion, he's all talk...good talk, fun talk, great smile, but talk.

-Angie