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Immigration Debate and Taxes, Social Security

(Continued from our immigration debate part 1)

Well, I do not know that much about social security taxes you are the expert on that but I am pretty sure that most illegal workers are not paying the IRS and that is where the real money is taken.  I must say,  I would be a bit surprised if it was true that most illegal’s were paying in social security taxes because I do know that the employer has to match whatever is taken out of your check for Social Security.

I work part time and my boss does take out social security for me and then he matches it and it is sent in every quarter.  He does not take out federal taxes so I have to pay it all in at the end of the year (and it hurts) but he has a bunch of people who do odd jobs for him, a cleaning lady (American) and a lawn guy (Mexican, does not speak English so I assume he is illegal) and some white American guys that do odd jobs who he pays as "contract labor" and does not pay taxes on any of them.  His lawn guy used to be white American and all the sudden he quit using him and went with the Mexican guy and actually he pays the Mexican more than he did the other guy.

 My boss (who owns a small business) is all about finding the loop holes and he even complains when he has to pay in my social security taxes as if I wasn't paying half of them myself.  My boss says that if they cracked down on the big farming corporations and make them pay higher wages to hire Americans that the cost of fruit and vegetables would go thru the roof and we would be paying triple for fruits and veggies.  Maybe that is true and maybe this has went on so long now that nothing much can be done about it or maybe they just try to keep us scared that we have to have a bunch of illegal people to do these low paying jobs (that they say we won't do) to keep America afloat.  It seems the low-paying job market gets larger and larger each year.  Where will it all stop?

 It is hard for me to believe that 2,000 or more come across the border everyday.  Where do all these illegal immigrants go once they cross the border? Is anybody left in Mexico?  How can we keep absorbing this many new people who need jobs, food, health care?

There has to be some order about the whole thing....the politicians need to get off their big fat lazy butts and find a solution.  Nobody is even talking about health care.  I know "our own" health care has tripled over the last two years and I know these low-paying jobs do not have a health care plan.  So who pays when one of the 20 million illegal immigrants get sick.  We already have millions of Americans who cannot afford health care going to the emergency room for treatment. 

I have been watching all sides on this illegal immigration debate so that I can get a sense of what is going on.  I saw that  (Randi Rhodes) lady that is on Air America who I can't remember her name on Larry King and she said some stuff I agreed with.  Randi Rhodes said that President Vicente Fox of Mexico is encouraging his people to cross the border and come to work in the U.S. so he won't have to take care of the many of thousands of Mexicans who are out of work in that country.  Another point she made,  "it is a problem of the government not controlling the corporations who pay the low wages to illegal’s...if they are allowed to keep hiring them...they will keep coming".

My thought:  they come into the country desperate to find work to make money to either send back to Mexico or to move here to make a better life then they get a job working here and there...do not pay taxes (corporation just as guilty as they are)...then if they can't find work...they can get assistance from U.S.

It appears that it would be against the law to pay illegal immigrants if they are illegal.   I have to pay my taxes and if I don't pay I go to jail.  This is unfair.

Saw some interesting stuff on how many of the illegal immigrants die in the dessert trying to get here so it seems they are pretty desperate to come to the land of plenty.  Although it is not exactly the land of plenty anymore.

I also saw where we spend over a Billion dollars on healthcare for illegal immigrants every year.  The majority of this goes towards emergency room settings, millions to school the children, and they are even able to apply for assistance (welfare).

While Pres. Fox is telling his people to come to America he is protecting his border on the south and does not allow people down there to come into his country illegally. This makes President Vicente Fox a hypocrite.  We have the same problem with the Canadian border but not the same volume of people.   The Canadian border is where the shoe bomber entered the U.S.  I wonder what Canada would do if we all started flocking across the border to live there?  Nobody wants to go across the border into Mexico so Canada does not have this problem!

By the way, my views have nothing to do with prejudice against Mexicans.  It is just common sense.  The middle class tax payer cannot keep paying the bills for everybody along with the War in Iraq, hurricanes, etc.

Summer, NJ

Yeah, it makes you wonder if anyone is left in Mexico.  Maybe we could make a partnership with Mexico to takeover parts of northern Mexico to make it a place that these American companies can go to have their labor stations so that they would not have to have citizenship because apparently this is going to happen regardless.  Who knows.. There has to be a better, more creative solution.

Blake, TX

I think the bottom line on illegal immigration is, well, the bottom line.  Exploitation is profitable for American corporations.  And, as you point out, any expenses resulting from it are paid by the American working class...not a group that the American power structure worries itself over.

Both the Mexican workers and the American workers are abused by this system.  For American workers to blame the Mexican workers is pointless...what needs to be changed is a system that profits most when workers are exploited, underpaid, given no benefits and no job security.  The only people who benefit are a very few rich people.

To me, a successful economic system is one that allows everyone in the society to participate in the society's economic success.  But increasingly in our economic system, the only avenue offered for that participation is to own stock...and the more you own, the more you exploit.  This is what George Bush means when he talks about the "ownership society" and it's a pyramid scheme...pretty soon, the only way you can succeed is by exploiting yourself.

Modern American capitalism has been described as "predatory capitalism"...not that old-fashioned capitalism wasn't plenty exploitive, but it does seem that our economic system has reached some new lows in treating the majority like garbage to benefit the few who own the system.

As for putting American companies in Northern Mexico that's already been done.  With an incredibly destructive ecologic impact (the American companies can get away with murder there) and the same-o, same-o for the Mexican workers.  Good article about it can be found at the link below.  I won't copy and paste because it's long, but it's worth reading.

You boss sounds typical of small business...a little bit crooked, a little bit straight...does as much as he can get away with, which these days is plenty.  The "contract labor" thing is a major scam.  The basic law is if an employer can hire you, fire you, and set your hours, you're an employee.  And the employer ought to be paying his share of your Social Security taxes.  A lot of small businesses (and even some larger ones) call anybody they can get away with a "sub-contractor".  And the real cheats don't even give their "sub-contractors" a 1099 to file their income taxes as self-employed, so all the money exchanged is under the table.

If that underground economy could be brought to the surface, the government would have enough in taxes to save Social Security, give everybody health care, give all the kids a great education, and still fight whatever war some politician pulled out of his butt.  However, that's never going to happen because people like your boss are a lot more likely to vote than the "sub-contractors" who work for him.

Madge, NYC, NY